Introduction (Dr. Lacy): 

Hey friend, the time has come to finish your dissertation, graduate and become doctor. Welcome to office hours or Dr. Lacy where we talk about how to finally master this time management thing so you can stay on top of it without losing your mind. Every Wednesday you can find a new episode wherever you listen to podcasts. Make sure you hit the subscribe button to make sure you never miss an episode. I'm Dr. Marvette Lacy, your dissertation writing strategist here to be with you along every step of the way and I would like to thank you for coming to today's office hours. Let's get started on today's episode. Hey, before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know about finish your dissertation. Do you know about it? It is my signature group designed to take you from being candidate to doctor. I'm talking about getting the structure you need in your dissertation process so that you can show up every week consistently and focused on achieving your dissertation goals. We meet on a weekly basis to really make sure that you're maximizing your time and that you know the exact activities you need to focus on to move your dissertation forward and best of all the community is the best thing out there. I mean, we're talking students who are dedicated, who are supportive, who will hold you accountable when you need it, crushing their dissertation goals. So if this sounds like anything that you would be interested in and you could use a little bit more focus and accountability in your dissertation process, then you need to come on over to Marvettelacy.com and learn more about the finish your dissertation group. Also, you can schedule your next step call while you're there so that we can have one on one time to talk and discuss you, your dissertation and your needs to make sure that finish your dissertation is going to be a good fit for you. Again, you can go over to Marvettelacy.com to learn more. Now let's get on to today's episode.

Hey, Hey, welcome to this week's episode. I'm so excited. We have another interview with Tiffany Smith and fun fact. Uh, Tiffany was my second client ever. Uh, when I started my coaching business in fall of 2017, we were working together on I believe her exams and part of her exams were writing her literature review and so we did that for a couple of months and stayed in touch here and there but her story, her experiences abroad, um, cause that is what you're going to hear a lot about in this episode. I feel like you're going to find so much value out of that but we're going to get into it because I don't, I don't want to spend all this time talking but I did want to say if you're listening to this in real time and you need some assistance with your dissertation, please come on over to Marvettelacy.com and check out finish your dissertation group. If you are like I need any type of structure or support in my dissertation then this is the program for you but I will be doing another episode all about finish your dissertation. But for now let's get into it. Here is my conversation with Tiffany, enjoy!

Tell Us About Yourself (Dr. Lacy): 

All right. Thank you so much for being a guest on today's episode. To start off, introduce yourself to the people who are you, where are you and what do you think we should know?

Guest: Yeah, so thank you so much for allowing me to be on the podcast for this episode. I appreciate it, Marvette.

Dr. Lacy: Absolutely.

Guest:

Yeah, and just to say a little bit about me, I always say that you know, first and foremost, I am a teacher. My undergrad degree is in early childhood. I have a master's in education. So much of my experience has been in teaching, so I taught for two years in Illinois. I taught for 2 years in Casa Blanca, Morocco. And then I taught for nearly three years in Abu Dhabi, UAE. So currently I am a fourth year PhD candidate at the University of Minnesota and my program is organizational leadership policy and development. But my track is comparative and international development education. So um a little bit about my work. My dissertation study looked at African American teachers and through Atlanta teacher attrition, I am looking at factors that encourage them to leave the US K through 12 system to come and teach in K through 12 schools in the UAE. So it's a combination of government schools and private schools and just looking at motivational factors that encourage them to come down.

Traveling Abroad 101 (Dr. Lacy):

Thank you. So I'm sure you get this question all of the time and people are like, how are you traveling? How are you doing the things outside of the States, being a student, just time, resources, all of the things. I know it's a big question, but I'm sure that.

Guest: I know. Well, you know, it's, it's a great question because I think that is part of the reason why, you know, I'm, I'm excited about this interview because I feel like this is the time where I am looking on social media and I'm seeing my cohort members defending and getting ready to walk the stage in May. And I'm like, Tiffany, why are you not just getting the degree and wasting time abroad? And no, not wasting time. But, um, to my core, I've always been a person who, uh, loves international engagement. And I think one of the things when I decided to come back to the States and pursue my PhD, I was like, I do not want to sacrifice my travel like that's just, you know, who I am. That's what makes me feel grounded. So basically what I've been doing since I was in the program was applying for, um, international fellowship, which, um, a couple summers ago I ended up going to Cameroon for a teacher exchange program. So they paid, you know, pay for me to go and have this experience. And then the summer after that I ended up getting a fellowship on campus for like $3,000.

And basically the fellowship was basically to encourage us to somehow progress in our dissertation research. And you know, as whatever we decided to do for the summer, we would come back and discuss it with a cohort of people. So they gave me the $3,000 and I came to the UAE and I did a pilot study for my dissertation work. So once the pilot study was going on, I came here and networked with some people at, it's called the [inaudible] foundation for policy and research network and you know, tell them about my project and you know, talk or tried to see if it's something worth studying after year. And then I found that they had a doctoral fellowship that I could apply for. So I applied for the fellowship and I was selected and now I'm here for a school year, so nine months. And they are basically providing with housing accommodations. They paid for my round trip flight. I get a monthly stipend and uh, I just basically had to submit my findings to them and then do a couple of presentations about the research. So yeah, I got a fellowship.

Advice for Traveling Abroad (Dr. Lacy):

Awesome. Um, yeah, that's on my list next to learn more about, I just, I remember when I was a student I just felt like I didn't have time to look it up even though I knew it would be helpful. In my head I felt like I didn't have time, but I guess looking back on it, I would've been like, sure, I could have spent some more time doing it. But yeah, I'm curious to know what's available and the process and all of that. So I'll be doing some more research. But in general, for the folks who may be listening and may want to research their own opportunities around fellowships, do you have any advice or strategies that you would be willing to share in regards to that?

Guest: You know, it's interesting because I, my, my advice would definitely be to look at the services that the university offers because my program is not necessarily correlated with my study and with my program being organizational leadership, policy and development. My program basically looks at like comparative development international development, like big companies like UNESCO, USAID, all that stuff. But because I have a teaching background, I'm able to insert this teacher migration in there, which basically just really comes together with the program. But what I was able to do was, because of my background, I was able to go over to like curriculum and instruction. Um, the teacher prep program and there was a lot of funding available, not only for fellowships but also like assistantships. I was able to supervise students that were going for their Minnesota teaching license. So I was able to work with them as well.

But a lot of the things as far as like the funding was really in the university, in-house . And so what is it called? SSRT social science research, something, I'll give you the information if you want to put it in the show notes, but I was elected for this in-house program is through the Mellon foundation and basically what they do for six days, over two sessions, they teach you how to apply for fellowship, how to write it, how to do a proposal, how to, you know, write your hook and convince someone who's not in your program convinced them to select your research. So it was a blessing to be able to be in that space where, you know, we're peer reviewing each other, we're getting feedback from professors who had written big grants and fellowships and all those things. So I had the opportunity to kind of get molded. And then when I left, they gave us like a five page sheet of fellowships that are out there, grants that are out there. And of course it's interdisciplinary, but you have to find what kind of works for you. But, um, I could share that as well. There's so many organizations, there's so many things out there that's available as far as funding. It's just, you know, putting in the work to actually sit down and write for them.

Tell Us About Your Dissertation (Dr. Lacy):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's probably what my issue was. Like, you know, I'm waiting to leave. Um, but I, I if folks have, I just encourage people to do it because it gives you more freedom, flexibility and options and sure, you know, you have to renegotiate in the way that you structure your time. Um, since it's not this, for most of them, it's not this traditional, you're going into an office and you're working, you know, like you're 15, 20 hours a week. It's, it's more about you structuring your time, which I feel like you, you're learning throughout the dissertation process too. Um, which I know can be the biggest challenge for folks, but it's, it's doable. I'll say it that way. I do have an upcoming episode about structure. um in a dissertation process, but speaking of dissertations, could you tell us a little bit more about your project and what you are doing right now?

Guest: I was trying to decide where to even start, Marvette. It's interesting because I had finally come to accept the fact that I am not on a traditional path, which I appreciate because being here in the UAE, you know, I, I'll say when I was in Minnesota I thought I was isolated and lonely and I didn't have friends. But you know, the process of just, you know, so mean to me. And then I came to the UAE and it's like, okay, you really out here by yourself. Like you have to hold yourself accountable. You know, there's nobody on your shoulder. Like did you get that done? You know, are you going to turn this in on time? You know, here's your to do list. So basically for me, my, my primary focus as far as being here is data collection. So essentially what I'm doing is life history interviews and so far I have interviewed about 11 people. Now the thing about the interviews is like, Oh you know, you could do a 30 minute interview in call it data collection. But I mean literally with two of my like historian, their interviews are like six hours each and I'm getting down to the nitty gritty of what was your experience like teaching in the States. What was your experience like teaching here, you know, what was your family's impact on you even choosing teaching? Did you even choose teaching? And just kind of go into that in-depth about like the narrative about teachers rather than you know, always focusing on curricula or you know, achievement. It's like who are the people behind these roles? So that's one thing. But in order for me to be here, I still have to be able to pay for tuition. I still had to be able to do everything that I need to do in the program.

So officially I'm also working two jobs. So I am a graduate assistant for a professor, which basically she has me doing some research for her. And then I'm working on a couple of articles and stuff that she was a guest editor for a journal, so I helped her with that. And then the other job that I had is being a editorial assistant for an academic journal and I am, how do I say, transforming an old system to a new system, which has been amazing because I really get to read like all of the articles that have been published with this journal, which if I, if I didn't have this opportunity, I wouldn't be able to see research and how people do research. So it's a really good experience for me, but I don't know how I'm doing it. There is no formula. Every day is a new day. Every week I have a list of to do's and I just kind of go one by one getting it off of the list. And every week like I'm still swimming. So I don't have the perfect formula, but when I tell you there is so much going on around me and I just feel like I'm finally surviving it all. I know that this is definitely going to impact, you know, my future career because man, just in a leadership position, I'm like this, this is real skills like learning real skills,

A Day in the Life (Dr. Lacy):

I mean, absolutely exclamation point is what I'm going to say that that. So speaking, uh, you know, just, just over here trying to make it, could you walk us through what, I know there, probably no week is typical. Um, but to give folks an idea of what is it like to just navigate all of these things in a different space, different environment, and try to juggle all of your responsibilities.

Guest: Yeah. So every day is different, but it is, it's a, it's a beautiful experience. Um, I'll, I'll brag for a second.

Dr. Lacy: Yes.

Guest: Because one of the things that I did for myself was I, I'll, I'll be honest and I know that the episode isn't about the mental issues and the mental terrain that we go through. But when I came here, I was not in a good mental space. Now, I used to live here, so when I taught here in the UAE, I was in Abu Dhabi. So it's a very familiar space. And then when I came back to do my pilot study, you know I did it in Abu Dabi, still a very familiar space, but this time that I'm here, I'm in XXX which is an Emirate that two and a half hours from Abu Dhabi. So I'm further out and it's a lot more quieter, a lot easier. When I lived here, I'd never drove and I'm driving here like I have everything that I need. So I decided to get a gym membership at a resort. And when I tell you how beautiful this resort is, I mean I will go work out in the morning, go upstairs, overlook the Arabian Gulf, I have my laptop out, you know, I'm drinking my Bellini at three o'clock like, but it's not the typical day.

Those are the days where it's like maybe once or twice a week I'll do that. But with the foundation that's sponsoring our research, they do provide me with office space. So sometimes I'll go in, like I said, I'll have my to do list. I'll go in at about 8:30 so I'm there from 8:30 to 5:30 just, you know, jamming everything out. And I think one of the hardest things for me is just all of the sitting because it's literally lack of proper office space. So I have to, you know, get not business casual look and then I go in, I'm sitting, I'm on my best behavior. So a lot of that, I didn't want to get into that when I first came, but then I realized that there's a lot of networking that can be done in the office space as well. So it's a little bit of both. But one of the things that I wasn't prepared for when having to drive back and forth between Rocco, Kima, Dubai and Abu Dhabi and basically, I mean I've been here since September. So one month I drove at least three times in the same and the same month just back and forth doing interviews, you know, recording all of this stuff. So that is an interesting thing because when I was in Minnesota, you know, to drive home back to Austin, Illinois where I'm from that was a nine hour drive and I did it. But these two and a half hour drives in the desert, you know you're looking at camel, people driving crazy. It's just a long drive. So it is a little taxing, but there is, every day is different. Every day is different.

Finding Community 101 (Dr. Lacy):

Yes. It sounds like the first part was like an Instagram dream, right? Having going to the resort and the drink and then this piece is all of the realities of, you know, making this project work. So thank you so much for sharing that. And you mentioned more about the, the, the taxing part mentally. So I have really been doubling down on talking more about this, the mental piece of doing a dissertation or just doing doctoral journeys in general because it's, it's almost spoken as, Oh, it's, it's what's supposed to happen. You're supposed to be so stressed out that you're having all of these health issues. You're supposed to be so lonely, right? Like people are really promoting it as a badge of honor. And I don't believe that it has to be that way or it or it needs to be that way for you to be a quote unquote, you know, like great scholar. I feel like you can have joy and peace and take care of yourself and get the things done that you want to get done and accomplish those things. And in a lot of ways I feel like faculty are passing along like, well I was treated this way or I went through this as a student and so you have to as well, like this academic hazing of sorts. So I become more intentional about communities and things that I've set up to help clients. Um, so like my biggest thing, my biggest product is the community. It's called finish your dissertation and it's all about getting people around other doc students and people at first I'm like, I don't know. I just want to work with you one on one. I'm like, you don't know. You don't know. You need community. You think it's you need strategy but you really need other people because that not only helps with you finishing but it helps you with that mental piece, like the stressed out piece and all of that. So what are some ways that you've been finding community and/or just support whether it's directly related to your project but just in general? Um, cause I know you talked about the isolation piece.

Guest: Yeah. You know it's interesting because I'm thinking about being back on campus and when I was on campus I was the one that did a lot of like initiating that come on let's study or you know, there's an event going on, you know, like an academic event. Let's go here. You know, there, there were so many things happening and I was always reaching out to people basically for my needs. Let me, let me selfishly say, I wasn't necessarily trying to build a community among all of us. It was just something that I needed. So essentially what happens is, you know, you invite some people, then they may come around a couple times and then they'd meet out. But you have your core people. Even if they're not together as a group, you have your core people that really impact, um, your journey. I'll say that and that, let me not speak in general. Let me think about myself. I have a core group of people. So it was, what's interesting is with me being away, I realized that those relationships that I established while I was on campus are really impacting my experience here. So like prime example, I was writing for a fellowship and one of my cohort members, my friend, you know, she's like, Tiff, whenever you're done with your proposal, send it to me. I'm gonna give feedback, I'm applying for the same one. I'll send you mine just give me some feedback. So as far as like that accountability and you know, being able, and these are folks who, if they're not in my on my track, they're still in my program with, you know, experiencing the same things. It's been good to have them around. One of the things that has been a little, and I guess this, this is coming more of a, a piece of honesty rather than feeling like I have the answer to it.

But I think one of the things that we also do to ourselves as African American, Black students, you know, in at predominantly white institution, is we have a way of only the gravitating towards other Black, well I'll just say for me, African American, Black, Black students. And that was my thing. Come on y'all, there ain't but 10 of us in here, let's get together, you know, hold each other accountable. And I, I was very disappointed at the effort that I was putting in that I wasn't receiving. And I think what I found was some people, although we're on the same journey, some people may on the forefront look like they're doing well and they may look like it's so easy. And you know, when you're getting fellowship, then you're getting accolades. It's like, Oh, she has it. Don't worry about it. But for me, they were core, they were a core part of that experience. So when I wasn't, you know, when I wasn't receiving what I was giving, that was more emotional baggage. So what I found was, because my study focuses on the middle East, once I started opening up my circle of people that I felt like I could rely on, Oh my goodness. I mean it just, it changed my entire experience. Like one woman in particular, white woman who, I forget how we connected, but every Tuesday we would have a writing session. I mean now she's, you know, emailing how's everything going, Tiffany how's Emirates? Do you need anything? So I think even just widening our circles as far as like what is academia, you know, different perspectives on our project because nobody has worked, nobody in that core circle I was trying to build was doing any type of international work. So when I branched out it was like, Oh Tiffany, you know? Yeah cause they're doing this in Bahrain. this same thing in Qatar. Look at these different countries because of the teacher exchange. Like it's huge. So I really had to get outside of my own boundary that I was creating for myself as well and open up. So now, you know, being here, a lot of my accountability I would say is in my life historians and I don't call them participants because I think that's just very limited to what they're doing for my study to the core of my study. So I call them life historians. But they have been the ones that really is just bringing out the work. I think it's a due diligence that I have to do my best to bring these stories to the forefront because these folks are just opening up.

Community Do’s and Don'ts (Dr. Lacy):

Absolutely. Um, there's two places I want to go, but I'm going to stay here for one more minute and then switch off. Cause you, you mentioned, you know, one the first group you were, you know, you took the initiative and you know, tried to bring folks together and you were not getting, receiving the same energy you were putting out. And then the second piece of branching out, it's working with people who may not look like you. However, more so on the same page as you. And then this third piece around your life historians and the word choice, there in intentionally not saying participants, to honor the role that they have in your project. But first before we transition to that, when you think about your original group of folks that you tried to bring together because I think this is an important note, are there particular things that you can remember that they were doing or not doing that you wish would have been different and it would have helped to make your experience a little more fruitful? Not to say that they needed to be a content expert, but more in terms of the group dynamics. If they would have showed up this way or did these things, that would have been more helpful.

Guest: So for me, I'm from Illinois and although I've lived in this state, I've lived this state abroad, so I'm always away from my family. So being in Minnesota was not an issue for me. What I was not prepared for was these very territorial categorized relationship. And it was interesting to me because as I met people, it was also as if in their mind, they had to make a space from where I could fit. Now some of them were from Minnesota, so they had their families there and some of them were transplants, just like me. So it was like academic space. Oh you know, Tiffany, can you look at this paper, can we work together? You know, let's do a study session, you know? And it was like, yeah, you know, this is what I'm initiating, let's do it. But then when it came to the social life or you know, talking about issues at the program or you know, pushing each other forward, it was almost like, well you're in that box, I can't like bring you over to this box. Which I think that what and its good to actually talk about it now. But when I was in it, I was just like goodness am I not like a good person? Like am I not popular? I don't know what it is. But it was just like I was that academic person. And I also came off that way too, because like I said, I was the one initiating the academic stuff and all of that. But I just felt, I wish that the relationship that I was building wasn't just based on the academic piece, but that we were truly building authentic relationships that went past, you know, always having to talk about what we were doing or talking about professors or all of that stuff. So it also seems surface, it almost, I sometimes I felt used. Let me just say that sometimes I felt used. So it was just like the isolation, feeling used, like not having a outlet. I would say first gen, first gen person in, in college, it's like there are certain things you can't talk to your family about. They don't understand. I just felt really alone.

Dr. Lacy: Mm. Yeah. And just because you are in a doctoral program doesn't mean that first gen, you know, experience goes away.

Guest: Yeah. It gets even worse. That's the toxic positivity. Like you'll be fine, Tiffany. You always do well. Oh, you always figure it out.

Authentic Community 101 (Dr. Lacy):

Yeah. I remember calling my family. I'm like, but no, no, you don't understand. Like I, it was before taking my preliminary exams and I was just like, no, I don't, I don't need you to say I always do well. Like I really need you to hear me that it's difficult and I don't know what I'm doing. And I get it. Like looking back, I can say like, well they didn't know what to say, right. Because to them I've, I have always figured it out and then I'll figure this out. It's just school and I've been doing it for this long. Like why is this so different? And they don't get it. So now I hear you. So it seems like, you know, working with this, this woman who can, who understands and who can relate, who's been there and can give you resources, that's been helpful. And what were some things or thoughts or et cetera that you had to think about in order to get out of your own ways, so to speak and be able to open up as you, as you said about working with people who may not look like you or may not have the same socialization experiences as you growing up? What are some of the things that you had to do to in order to be fully engaged in that?

Guest:

I would say for me those were the relationships that I didn't have to really do anything. Like I could just show up. And I remember, and this is the funny thing, I mean I, I'm very proud of where I am right now, but my journey has not been the easiest. And I have gone through changing advisors in my third here. I have gone through writing my prelim at least three or four times before it was actually accepted. So in the midst of me putting myself out there to help other people and, and, and this is the funniest thing that, I mean God is just chilling out and the midst of me not passing my prelims during that same time I'm being selected ofr department fellowship, right? So it's two different things going on. It's like a fail and a defeat like we think you're on the brink of something good but you're not there yet, but we're going to give you some money. I don't know, it was just like a nasty feeling.

Guest:

So in this spaces where, and I guess, I guess this was the privilege of it too, because I'm thinking about one friend in particular who is in the English department, she's not outside, she's outside of my department. She didn't know all of those things. It was just like I could show up and be like in tears, like this is not working. You know I and, and the same thing for her in tears is that working, And neither one of us understood what we were going through, but it was like it was a safe space to, you know, not have to wear a mask and you were able to be vulnerable and just let it all out. I wondered though, this is interesting because I wonder if when I'm around people that look like me in a space where it's just a few of us, if it is like a silent competition, like you can only do well, wear the mask of doing well. Cause I really didn't have a lot of, a lot of my, my core friends that I was with that opened up about school stuff. They would open up about their families and stuff but not school stuff. So for me on the other side of it, it was just like I could just show up and be, and then for somebody to read my work and be like, okay, there's some good things here but we're going to reword it like this and we'll put this and then a connection sentence here. So it was, it was the help that I needed. That's what I needed.

Intentional Dissertations (Dr. Lacy):

Yes. There are folks who feel like, Oh, there can only be one smart insert whatever, Black, Brown, whatever person. Right. Cause you get so used to, some folks get so used to being in an environment where they're the only that that becomes threatened when they get into a space where there are a few more people who look like them and it becomes a sense of competition. Yeah. Switching gears a little bit, I am curious to know, so we worked together about two years ago and um, I remember a big part of our conversation was about, well this is a critical study, meaning that you know I have to talk about the systemic pieces related to teachers and what is it? Why would I as a teacher, why would I be, you know, motivated to leave the States and go abroad to teach? And you know, that the experience might be more of a positive one and addressing how the history and sociopolitical pieces play a role in someone's motivation to leave and go abroad and that having conversations about how to, you know, have that conversation with your chair or just your program. Could you speak more to your experience in terms of saying, here's my project. Here are the very intentional choices I'm making. One of those choices being, I'm not referring to folks as participants, I'm referring to them as life historians. And any your response that you got to that, um, and how you had to navigate that.

Guest:

The first thing that comes to my mind with it, so I haven't had much pushback from my department, Marvette. I think the funniest thing is I have been my worst critic. And I have been policing my words as if I'm waiting on someone to say, you can't do it that way. You can't say that. Right. So one of the critical shifting points that has happened, and this is a part of my international career and life identity, however you want to call it. But I ended up going on a writer's retreat with Dr. Cynthia Dillard who does endarkened feminist epistemology. So we all went to Ghana and I had like a one on one conversation with her because this is in the midst of me not passing the prelim and essentially this is a writers retreat for us to come together and just write. And I mean in her, in her ideology write, W R I T E and right R I G H T our lives together. And I think that's what happened. She gave me permission to kind of challenge not only what I wanted to say, but also challenged the way that I was bringing in other people's voices because I have always wanted to be nice and politically correct. And, um, I think I'll say I think it's coming through, but I still haven't perfected it. One of the things that I am experiencing now, which isn't necessarily the critical , but my advisor. So it's interesting because when I changed advisors, my previous advisor is still on my committee. I didn't leave him for the bad relationship. It was what was supposed to happen.

But one of the things is me looking at the UAE, I did have a way of romanticizing it. Like, Oh, you know, Will Smith and Tyrese and you know, movies and celebrities and all that stuff. And he's like, yeah, but what about the labor? You cannot not talk about what's really going on there. And for me, not only is it about the UAE, but it's also about what's not being said about African American teachers. The lack of voice, right? People or researchers coming in and, and you know, attempting to talk about why, why teachers are this or why teachers are that without the voice of the teachers. So there, there's a couple of things that I'm attempting to do with it. And I think for me it's also inserting myself into the work, which is, you know, the reason why I'm like, no, these are not participants because they're living the life that I've lived. I've lived the life that they've lived. We're all life historians stories, like we're going to tell you the story about this. Um, and even a piece that I did on myself, like this whole notion of positionality, I think that's one of the privileges that I've been able to have as far as delaying graduating and graduation. It just hasn't happened yet. But I've also been publishing as well. So I wrote a piece where I am using this metaphor of double Dutch and I'm double dutching through my experience teaching in the U S and I'm double dutching through my experience teaching in Morocco, which is where I taught before I came here. And I am basically, you know, telling it like this is the family that I come from, this is, you know, my experience, I am not supposed to be where I am. And I think it is, you know, kinda con- according to societal standards. But I feel like one of the things that I'm intentional about with the research is these voices, I mean raw as they have to be. Mine included, starting with the example of mine. I don't want to water it down or cushion it. I did change the critical lens, which I have another committee member who's like yeah, you need to use that too. But I did change it to intersectionality and just talking about the way that even just something is phrased like in a state, you're Black in the UAE you're American. So even the ways that race and language and all of these, you know, power dynamics shifts and exchanging it's, it's work. Marvette and I have, I look, I'm just doing right now.

Coaching Benefits (Dr. Lacy):

Yes. No, I hear you. And you're doing great though. That's what it sounds like. Like this is the process. Um people think it's supposed to feel good all the time. I don't believe that. I mean cause otherwise like everyone would do it and would be like, we'll be able to get to the end of the journey. Right. But it's a challenge. It's the figuring it out. It's the what if, is this gonna work? I don't know. Like, that is the journey and that is the part, believe it or not, most people will look back on, especially if they don't continue, you know, being involved in research in this way, will look back and say they miss. But it's hard to feel that way in the moment. So one last thing, whatever your response is is fine because we all, I'm going to put this caveat like we all have a starting place. I had a starting place in terms of coaching. Um, I'm curious to know what was a part of your motivation for working with a dissertation coach? Um, and how would you, the second part would be how would you describe your experience for people who are curious about it? Because a lot of people will say, well, I don't need a coach because I have my advisor, I have my committee. That's what their job is. Like, why would I need to pay someone else to help me? So would you be willing to share a little bit about your experience?

Guest:

I will work a whole summer job just to save up money to pay a coach. Like this is absolutely real and I don't think it starts or ends with dissertation work. I don't know if you know this Marvette, but I've actually hired three coaches already throughout my areas. The funny thing about me is I think I have to unthink a lot of things that have that that I've experienced, I'll say. I've always done well at school. I know how to do school, but the dissertation project, or at least the program let alone cause I'm just now collecting data, but it's a whole different way of thinking. It's a whole different way of writing. It's a whole different way of organizing your thoughts. I mean I had to download, I use Scribner because I talk well like it's so easy for me to talk and debate and you know, analyze things out loud. But when it comes to writing. I am just like, I don't know what the disconnect is because I've always done well at school. But I feel like too, because of my advisor, they are a lot more, okay, let me, let me say this in a good way because I know a lot of people wish they had the attention that my advisor gives me. This woman has been absolutely amazing in moving me and guiding me in the short time that I've been with her. Because like I said, I changed advisors, but this is the epitome of graduating and being able to say I am a student of. So that means she has high expectations for me and it's like I want to make sure that I'm showing up, but I'm also not afraid to say there's just some parts that I don't understand.

Like even now with all of this data, I'm, I'm already deciding well who am I going to hire? Because once I get, once I get everything transcribed, I'm like, okay, so now what? What's the next step? And I appreciate that because to get somebody else's lens, like when it's like that, you know, forest and the trees, like when you're in it, it's just so many things happening and I don't see it. But something as simple as me saying it out loud. Somebody's opinion about it'd be like, yeah, you'd said that way better than I said it, but that's what I mean. So I mean my work with you, many of the other coaches that I've worked with, I think we academic, I think academic students, we have to do a better job with, you know, my one of my cohorts Simone said, we do not work in silos and even when we get into our careers, we do not work in silos I believe and even coauthoring so we have to work together seriously. And a coach, is just part of the gems that I've found in this, in my journey, I can't speak for anybody else, but in my mind I admit it.

Dr. Lacy:

Yes, no. As I feel, like I said, it's often if I knew dissertation coaching was a thing, as a student I would have been all like, well, here, take my money right now. It's not, what I am doing over here is not working. And I really do appreciate that piece that you said that I'm good at school because I felt that way. I was like, I'm good at school. I can do the, I can do the show up. Oh you need me to do these assignments. Great. But it was something about the dissertation process and I think people get stuck in a, well it's just a longer paper I should be able to write it and it's like not quite, it's not quite the same thing.

Guest:

No. Look, it's funny because I was, I did a great interview this past weekend and it's a woman. So, uh, one of the things about me is I studied abroad during my junior year of undergrad and like I said, my, my study is about teachers. But when we're sitting on the beach, you know, overlooking the ocean, you know, at that my zoom pro, H4 pro, we're just recording and she mentioned studying abroad and she went to Ghana. And then from Ghana she talks about what it felt like to be a Black woman in a Black space. And then she went to Italy and then essentially she ended up here and I said, goodness, we have the same experience and ended up in the same place. I've got to write an article about studying abroad. But my research is about teacher attrition. So note you know I gotta put that the parking lot, but it's like there's so many ideas that are flowing at the same time

Final Thoughts (Dr. Lacy):

All the time. I love a good parking lot document because even if we get it, you put it over there. Um, and that's what I tell people to do. I'm like, I know you probably heard the term in general, but I'm like, you need a document where you write all of your ideas cause you won't remember them and you don't like, you never know what's going to be helpful down the road. So Tiffany, thank you so, so, so much, uh, for giving your time today and sharing about your dissertation, about life abroad, about all the things if folks would like to connect with you, where can they find you?

Guest: Yeah, so I have to do a shameless plug.

Dr. Lacy: Yes.

Guest: I also have a podcast and it is called (A)broad in education. Parentheses around the a pun intended (A)broad in education. And um, I interview Ed pats that got them ed pats, uh, expatriates who work in education, um, and talk to them about their journeys narrative. The whole notion about teaching abroad. If you are interested, feel free to subscribe. But you can find (A)broad education at Abroad_ in_ ed on IG and Twitter. And then if you want me, it is tiffmyths15. And that's a, what is that? IG goodness. Do I even have time for social media?

Dr. Lacy: Yes. And the links and all of that will be in the show notes, especially with the podcast cause you need to go listen to it and well thank you so much and that's going to do it for us today. Thank you for joining in for today's office hours. Make sure you come on Instagram and tag me at Marvette Lacy, let me know what your thoughts were on today's episode. Until next time, do something to show yourself some love. I'll talk to you next week. Bye for now.